The Ultimate Webinar Playbook for Sales and List Building

[00:00:00] Zach Hammer: Welcome back, I'm Zach Hammer here with Charlie Madison. On today's episode, we're going to be doing something a little bit different than we've done before on our show. We're actually going to be going through and doing a live strategy session. This is a little bit of what it might look like if we were to hop on a call directly personally.

[00:00:17] Zach Hammer: So, instead of it being something where, I'm directly teaching or just sharing ideas. This is going to be a live recording of Charlie and I going back through. And getting Charlie unstuck, slash, helping to move him forward on an idea that I feel, we could help them with.

[00:00:33] Zach Hammer: Just to provide a little bit of context on this, in the past, one of the strategies that I've ran on behalf of my clients, is an exhaustive webinar playbook. And it's all around how you can leverage webinars as this foundational unit that gives you the opportunity to grow your list, create more sales. Both grow your list for free while also potentially being able to add a paid component on top of it to grow it even [00:01:00] further.

[00:01:00] Zach Hammer: And webinars, are this really magical thing that creates an asset that you can really turn into lots of different things? What you've seen and heard from me for a while, I really like leveraging things as much as possible, right? I want to record my meetings so that I could turn those into social posts.

[00:01:18] Zach Hammer: I want to take a social post and turn it all sorts of different angles so that I could have distribution on all sorts of different platforms. And I really like doing one thing that creates all the other things that are necessary. And webinars, as a centralized foundational thing are really powerful for that.

[00:01:36] Zach Hammer: So that's what we're going to do, Charlie, you want to give a little bit of an update on, where you are? What Referrals While You Sleep is doing? Your two different markets, that sort of idea, just that people are caught up with, where we're coming into this?

[00:01:49] Charlie Madison: Yeah. So I like to say, Referrals While You Sleep, what it does is it gets you referrals while you sleep. And I built it for my real estate practice and my real estate [00:02:00] team. So over the last 4 years, almost all of my clients were real estate agents or loan officers. I had a few real estate investors in there.

[00:02:09] Charlie Madison: And what it does is it builds connection, influence, and authority through promoted content marketing. And its specific content is based on Robert Cialdini's Factors of Influence. And so, it's pictures with made things that your face, your friends, with family, with other people to create similarity, testimonials to create social proof and duo videos or videos like this that create a lot of content, create authority, similarity, connection.

[00:02:39] Charlie Madison: And I run those as promoted posts all over the web, mobile phones, tablets, websites, mobile apps, Facebook, Instagram. So, it works really well for both real estate agents and lenders. Cause the whole goal is you stay top of mind with your circle of influence. If they trust you, they'll call you and we'll [00:03:00] follow your direction.

[00:03:01] Charlie Madison: A few months ago, one of my real estate clients, his relative has ran a podcast for 10 years and she said, I need what you do. And at the same time, our friend, Richard, actually manages podcasts for lots of people. And he's like, my clients need what you do. So, I have been doing that and it's pretty similar.

[00:03:21] Charlie Madison: The biggest difference, is with real estate agents and lenders, probably 80% of my time is encouraging them to do the duo video, creating the content. Whereas, with podcasters, they already have the habit of building the content. The other main difference is real estate agents and lenders, what they sell is very clear.

[00:03:41] Charlie Madison: They're going to help someone buy a home, sell a home, get a loan. And whereas the podcasters, each one has their different offering. And so, I found out the podcasters that this works really well with are people that already have a solid business. They already have the ability to convert leads into clients.

[00:03:58] Charlie Madison: They've got lead magnets [00:04:00] or offers. When someone says, I want to hire you, they know how to say yes. And then the third, they've got a habit of creating consistent content, which if they're a podcaster, that's what they have. And for them, what I do, is I grow their reach, grow their downloads, grow their email lists.

[00:04:14] Charlie Madison: Ultimately, they make more profit utilizing. For both of them, the similarity is this doesn't take any more time, maybe a max of an hour a month. Other than that, we just automatically done for you, there's not a course, and there's no training. It's done for you growth on autopilot.

[00:04:32] Zach Hammer: That makes sense. Knowing your business, what I've seen is that, there's at least a potentially slight difference. Are you currently going after growing their audience for both real estate and podcasts? Or is it still what it had been, which was mostly, in real estate, they are hopefully doing some level of things that are growing their audience naturally just by being them, right?

[00:04:55] Zach Hammer: Doing fun things with fun people, getting out, and growing the relationships. Are you doing [00:05:00] any strategies currently to go out and find new people for them, both in real estate and in the podcasting world? Or are those different?

[00:05:06] Charlie Madison: For real estate agents that the goal is to grow, but like you said, they're meeting people and as they meet people, we automatically grow their audience. Also, one of the things that we rolled out in the last quarter, is we not only build their database for them, but we retarget anyone that's been on their website, visited their Facebook profile, their Instagram profile.

[00:05:28] Charlie Madison: So what we're seeing is as our ads go out, the promoted content. As it gets shared to other people, as more people visit their website, their audience does grow that way. And so, we're doing the same thing with the podcast. It's mainly focused right now on, reconnecting with the people they already know.

[00:05:46] Charlie Madison: However, it's really important for podcast people to grow. Phase 2 is, once we find out the most engaging content, then we do promote that to strangers, to new people. That's probably [00:06:00] almost more important for the podcasters than it is staying in front of the people they already know. Because a lot of the people they already know are already subscribed. So that helps, but really, the main goal is to grow their audience. And so, that's the project with our current people, that's what we're doing right now.

[00:06:17] Zach Hammer: So, let's think about these separately, because the people that you're serving and the needs of motivation are slightly different. Foundationally, everything business-wise fits into a couple of buckets for me. So, there's the create business processes, and that there's service business processes.

[00:06:33] Zach Hammer: And within that world, there's strategies that you have to grow, the amount of attention that you have. People who know who you are and who are paying attention to what you're up to, then there's the strategies that turn that attention into leads, people that you can communicate with.

[00:06:52] Zach Hammer: And there's a number of different ways to think about leads. One of the ways that I like to think about it is, in this lead zone, [00:07:00] could even be included anybody that you could pixel and retarget, right? Because there's a way that I could continually go out and communicate with them.

[00:07:07] Zach Hammer: Now, ultimately, I always want to be strategically and systematically moving toward some sort of lead that I own and don't have to pay Facebook or an ad platform in order to reach, right? So, I'm always trying to work toward growing that list of people that I can email or I could text message regardless of what the social platforms decide to let me do.

[00:07:31] Zach Hammer: And so, you might think about that as a scale of, how much do I own this attention versus how much am I leasing this attention? And I strive to build systems that move people from leased to owned, right? So that I can longterm build something that's strong.

[00:07:49] Zach Hammer: So, I think through that concept of converting attention into leads. And the more I own the lead, the better. Then you have your mechanisms of turning leads into sales. And [00:08:00] so, that's all the ways that you take somebody who you could communicate with and ultimately turn that relationship into a sale.

[00:08:07] Zach Hammer: And then you have systems for turning sales into serviced customers or clients. And that's all the work of actually delivering on the promises that you made in order to get the sale. So, where your service fits in the real estate world is largely in the turning leads into sales.

[00:08:26] Zach Hammer: If you think of that really loose end of anybody that I could retarget, they're starting into that lead zone, you're also potentially turning those people that are loose into a stronger lead. A stronger person that can communicate with me that ultimately results in a sale.

[00:08:41] Zach Hammer: And so, you're fitting in what I would consider, the nurture part of the category there. And for the real estate world, while you're not actively doing strategies that are designed to increase its intention. Fairly naturally, what real estate agents are already up to is naturally growing their attention and you're [00:09:00] better leveraging it through your system in order to turn it into sales.

[00:09:03] Zach Hammer: And so, as for instance, you aren't going out and running ads to brand new people. But anybody that sort of ends up in that real estate agent's web, they're going to be nurtured and indoctrinated to the point of a sale, and they pretty much can't escape that. That's the system that you've set up.

[00:09:18] Zach Hammer: And so then, you found with the podcasting world, yes, it is still valuable to do that nurturing, right? These are the people that hit your website, you have their email, you have some way of contacting them. We want to make sure that your content is leveraged as far as possible. So that, it's making the impact of being seen by the people who have already indicated that they're interested in what you're up to. We want to make sure that goes out effectively.

[00:09:41] Zach Hammer: But you've also found, that the nature of the way these podcasts grow, they need that new audience as well, right? So, you're leveraging the power of your system to leverage their content and seeing what gets the best performance through your distribution to their warm audience, in order to reduce costs to [00:10:00] go out and acquire a new audience by saying, we know that this thing's proven so we can leverage it. Instead of, really having to spend a lot of money on a cold audience, figuring out what works.

[00:10:10] Zach Hammer: We're figuring it out on a warm audience for cheap so that we could scale to the cold audience with what's already proven. Does that sound like an accurate overall assessment of where your service fits?

[00:10:19] Charlie Madison: Yeah. We grow their attention with the right content to the right clients. So, they're not testing a bunch of cold offers. Like, we already have the sniper shot.

[00:10:28] Zach Hammer: So, having that established, here's where potentially the webinar strategy fits into place. In terms of the webinar playbook, there's a couple of things that I like to think through. One of the types of webinars that you could run, would be you speaking to your own audience, right? So, essentially, very similar to what you're already doing on behalf of real estate agents and podcasters of distributing their own content to their own people.

[00:10:57] Zach Hammer: That's a type of webinar that you could run. [00:11:00] Now, let's think about where does that fit in the attention into leads, leads into sales? It fits in the convert leads to sales, right? So, the type of content that you'd be running is you'd be saying, here's the person that I have, how can I take somebody who's already expressed some level of interest in it and what I'm up to and move them over the finish line to a sale, right?

[00:11:20] Zach Hammer: So, I could use it as nurture content, a good excuse to get valuable information into the hands of people who have already ended up in my web, for lack of a better term. And then actually sink my teeth down into helping them to make a decision to make a sale, right?

[00:11:36] Zach Hammer: That's one strategy, that's a really good useful, and powerful strategy at the right point. What I found is that, for that kind of webinar, you're not ticking as many of the leverage boxes as possible, right? So, you're achieving a very narrow, and sometimes that narrow end is really necessary. If you want a mechanism that increases your sales ability at scale. If you're saying, I've got a lot of people, I need [00:12:00] to figure out how to process them without it requiring a ton of my time. Where I could speak and convert a large number of people with the same investment of my time.

[00:12:09] Zach Hammer: That's one way of doing it. If you want to leverage webinars to potentially grow your audience and grow your leads, that's where you get into some of the magical leveraged ways. And actually, you know what? I just realized, there's another one.

[00:12:22] Zach Hammer: Now, there's another type that you can run as well that sometimes works for both. And what I call, a user case study style webinar. If possible, you're looking for a cross-section of somebody who is a user of your product, the best cases are a user of your product who also has an audience that could use your product, does that make sense? If you have a user who's getting good results from what you're up to, whose audience would also get good results from what you're up to, that's the really leveraged person to find, right?

[00:12:54] Charlie Madison: That's often what I do with my loan officers that are offering the test drive to the [00:13:00] realtors, or if I'm working with a broker-owner, who's offering it to his agents.

[00:13:05] Zach Hammer: One of the other zones in real estate, what we found with one of my clients, Sisu. Sisu as a platform, really serviced high-level real estate teams. And you know this in the industry, if you are a high-level real estate team, there's probably at least a 50 to 90% chance that you also offer coaching. And you might be more of a national influence as well, right?

[00:13:29] Zach Hammer: And so, some of the top real estate teams across the country use Sisu as part of their business principles, as part of their success. And so, when you could bring those users on to share, how they're using the platform? How they're getting results? Not only do you create a great impression with your own users, with your own list, with that group of people. But if you set it up, they also potentially bring their audience and you grow your list and you grow your reach as well, because their audience is your target market. Does that make [00:14:00] sense?

[00:14:00] Charlie Madison: Yeah.

[00:14:00] Zach Hammer: So, in terms of maximizing the leverage, here's the way that I think about it. Any user with a powerful story is worthwhile. But if you have a user who also has the right target audience, that's like a golden goose, right? That's who you really want to do that kind of content with, especially if they're willing to promote.

[00:14:20] Zach Hammer: If you could figure out a way to make that webinar aligned with them, where they would promote it as well, so you can grow your audience through their audience. So, that's one type, it's a user who happens to have an audience, that's your target market as well. So, in the real estate space, you're already familiar with some of them. You just mentioned them, lenders, broker-owners.

[00:14:38] Zach Hammer: Potentially, other categories that could work well, title and escrow companies as well. If you partner with some of them, they have high incentive to get these types of products out to the agents that they work with in order, how that aspect of the industry works.

[00:14:54] Zach Hammer: No consumer cares about who they're working with for title and escrow. And so pretty much, the decision of, who somebody is going to [00:15:00] work with almost always comes from the agents, right? So their strategy, consumers see their product almost as a commodity that they don't see a difference between.

[00:15:09] Zach Hammer: So, it ultimately falls on, what agents want to use and who they recommend? And because title and escrow is largely the same across the board, typically they stand out by offering marketing strategy and that sort of thing. So, it's a great market to be able to offer content to a group of people who want to reach the same audience that you want to reach. But could do it at scale, and do it that way.

[00:15:29] Zach Hammer: So, that actually starts bleeding into what I would call another end, which is, there's a popular term coming up right now called, near bound marketing. So, what near bound marketing is? Works really well with these webinars, where you look at the people who aren't specifically competitors to you. But who offers a product that your users would also want? That if they use that product, they are likely a good fit for you as well. Great examples in the real estate space, specifically, CRM companies partnering up with transaction management [00:16:00] companies, partnering up with marketing companies.

[00:16:02] Zach Hammer: Those people coming together and doing content together, each one of them takes care of a different part of the overall funnel. And so, they can all promote together and all grow through that process. And you can grow together just through the reach of everybody's audience and who's appealed to different people at different times.

[00:16:20] Zach Hammer: That's a great way to do it, in the podcasting space, you're going to see similar things, right? You can look at what are the software companies that are reaching the people that you reach. So I'd be looking at, can I potentially do webinars and content with companies like Libsyn, Captivate.fm, Blubrry, that's the name of another one. So, I'd be looking at those, I'd also be looking at derivative potential companies as well. Maybe less perfect, marketing companies that specifically service the podcasting space, Podcast Coaches.

[00:16:50] Zach Hammer: Those sorts of groups as well are really great places to potentially say, Hey, we can do some content together. We can help your audience, it grows my audience, it grows your audience. And we create some sales [00:17:00] opportunities for both of us. Those to me are also some of the really powerful ones. What I love about those especially, is that's where the alignment becomes really powerful, right?

[00:17:09] Zach Hammer: When you're doing that near bound style of marketing, where sometimes, bringing a user on to do content and creating content through them or with them, there's a feeling of, it feels more one-sided than the other way. Depending on what you have to offer, how big their audience is, et cetera. But very often with the near bound opportunities, there's often a very strong feeling that you're really helping solve a big problem in their world, which is creating good content for their audience. Giving them another excuse to reach out, create content, et cetera. And so, it's really seen as a blessing rather than a gift, right? Where they feel like, they're getting more value than they're giving out of the process. So, those near-bound opportunities are really powerful.

[00:17:54] Zach Hammer: And then, the fourth type that is like near bound [00:18:00] amplified. This last type is just how you take this concept and potentially throw a ton of fuel on the fire, drastically increasing the opportunities, but also increasing the workload in the process, which is doing the same ideas. Internal content, user case studies, and nearbound marketing. And you do them as a summit, where you do a longer event. Maybe it's a few hours during a day, maybe it spans a couple of days.

[00:18:27] Zach Hammer: Maybe it's broken up over a couple of weeks, but you do it as a big event where you're bringing lots of people in to speak. And they could be any one of those kinds, but you get a lot of the same benefits. So, you get more of a splash by being able to say, Hey, we're putting together this really cool event to send around to this idea. And you look for the right partners to bring in that will get that value out of what you're up to.

[00:18:48] Zach Hammer: Whether it's users, near-bound partners, or even your own internal content that you're delivering to that audience. And so then, what questions do you have so far on just those ideas?

[00:18:59] Charlie Madison: So, I can [00:19:00] do internal to my current audience. It's not as leveraged as it could be because it's just, I'm not growing my audience. Next, you call it the magical leveraged webinar. It's how you get the best of all worlds, that's what I want to know about. You got the user case study webinar, which the best is, a client whose audience is also my client.

[00:19:21] Charlie Madison: So, like Richard, like you, our buddy, Adam. It's the reason it worked with Paul Berkobin as a lender. Cause he was a lender that talks with lenders. And then the fourth, it's like a one-day or multi-week summit, which can massively grow your list, and get to meet a whole lot more people. But there's a lot more work and I assume, there's a lot more follow-up on the back end that has to happen to make that pay off is my guess.

[00:19:46] Zach Hammer: Summits, especially are a really good list builder, depending on how you align the summit. So, if you align the summit where it really is a lot of people who all can come together and really promote toward a very specific angle, [00:20:00] then cool. You could potentially use a summit to drive sales. But summits to me, really a lot more about everybody coming together. It creates a really solid asset to be able to promote both to your list, for them to promote to their list, to potentially run paid ads, to both before and after.

[00:20:15] Zach Hammer: So, it gives you a really solid asset that people find value in and are more likely to become one of your leads, somebody on your list that you can communicate with. But yes, the reason why it takes more work is all just around anytime you're bringing multiple parties together, the coordination itself takes a lot more thought that like the technology and actually running them, it's about the same as a webinar. It's just done multiple times, right? There are some other considerations for sure, but yeah, that starts going into the vein of, quite a bit more work.

[00:20:42] Zach Hammer: It has more of an opportunity to create more of a momentum on its own, where people are hearing about it, people are excited about it, there's multiple angles you can have. Sponsorship could be separate from speaking and sponsorship could actually be done through promotion rather than paying. That's one of the ones that I've seen as well, where [00:21:00] essentially, you earn your sponsorship through expected promotion.

[00:21:04] Zach Hammer: So anyway, there's lots of ways to do that. But effectively, a summit is just a collection of one or more of those other types. So, internal stuff is really great, if you're just looking for a great way to take the list that you already, have and convert it into sales more readily. If you structure it right, you could potentially leverage it with paid ads and be able to drive to sales in a scalable way, but you're going to be paying more directly for those results.

[00:21:28] Zach Hammer: User case studies, when aligned properly, can be a great way to both grow your list and drive to sales. But it really depends on the user that you're partnering with, and how big their audience is, and how good that reach is. The one that feels the easiest to achieve, because everybody's in alignment that it can both drive towards sales and list growth. It does probably lean a little bit more toward list growth than to direct sales, are the near-bound JV style Webinars. So, based on where you are [00:22:00] currently, what of those strategies do you think sounds the most appealing based on your goals?

[00:22:05] Charlie Madison: That is a good question. You called number two, the magical leveraged webinar, and that helps grow the audience. I don't know exactly what that means, part of it, is I feel I've spent 4 hours creating an offer that you feel dumb if you say no to. My offer is give it a free test drive. And so, I feel like the more I can grow my audience, the better. And one of the issues with that is, good people who are near-bound partners are really busy.

[00:22:33] Zach Hammer: In how I conveyed it, really to me, the one that is the most magical one is the near bound, right? That's the one that to me is the most leverage. I had mentioned it when I was talking about the second one, but I feel like you get the best leverage off of that.

[00:22:48] Zach Hammer: But really, it could be a little bit of a toss-up depending on the user that you have. And whether they lean more toward feeling like a near bound or whether they feel more toward, they just got great results and we're sharing a great [00:23:00] story, right? Cause people exist on a little bit of a spectrum there.

[00:23:03] Zach Hammer: So, if they've got a great story and they've got the audience, that's really powerful, but it's a little bit of a Catch-22. You have to work with enough people to get that golden goose person to actually even be a part of your mix. But if you've got that person in mind, like, start making the connections and saying, seeing what you could do.

[00:23:20] Charlie Madison: I'm doing that with our friend Adam, that is the idea. Part of this is, it seems slower, but it's probably faster in the long run. I would be very happy reaching out to these people and say, Hey, I've got this, I'd love to test this with you for 30 days, 60 days.

[00:23:36] Charlie Madison: So it's cool, maybe we could come up with an approach where I could, find the podcast coaches or something and say, all right, Hey, look, this is what I'd like to do. This is how it's going to help you.

[00:23:47] Zach Hammer: And so, that to me is the key, right? So, for every one of these strategies, you are constantly having to think through aligning all of the incentives, right? So, you mentioned a couple of things that we want to deal with, and we want to [00:24:00] make sure we have a good plan for. We want to make it as easy as possible for the other people to do whatever we need them to.

[00:24:08] Zach Hammer: Ideally, I like to set it up so that the other person just shows up, slashes, just sends emails, or whatever. Further, I go through and I do the effort to create the assets that they can deploy. Cause if you want to leverage it for your outcome, you have to assume that the other people are not going to be as motivated as you are to get your goals out of it, right?

[00:24:34] Zach Hammer: So, they're not going to want to promote as much, they're busy. So, they're going to go toward whatever feels easy. So, if I can make it feel easy for them to promote effectively, then I'm going to do that, right? The other aspect is, I've got to think through, what do they want and how can doing this webinar feels like a great way to do exactly that.

[00:24:55] Zach Hammer: And really, that's going to depend on the people. But like, one of the things that I've seen, [00:25:00] this is actually something that I advised Richard of as well. Richard has a company called, PushButton Podcasts, and one of the things that he has, is he has a really great affiliate program. When you send him business, he's got a really solid offer on his affiliate program.

[00:25:12] Zach Hammer: And I said, if you want to be driving more sales and you want to do it systematically, I really recommend that you go and talk to agencies, and show them how you could do a webinar together using their affiliate link, so that you create sales for them that they don't even have to service.

[00:25:29] Zach Hammer: Like, all they have to do is be there and essentially said to the link. And you provide them the promo assets and that sort of thing too. Like, you're looking for something that feels that magical, where I'm going to do 90% of the work and you're still going to get paid. So, when you're looking at, who do I partner with for this? You really want to get clarity for yourself around what those things look like.

[00:25:47] Zach Hammer: Now, here's some of the things that I've seen and experienced. So one, is there like software companies, especially, I've seen this be the case and they're one of the ones that I really like [00:26:00] to part with for this reason. For some reason, if software companies are really baked into their mental features, right? They know what they do, they know what they've coded, they know the technical things that they're offering. And it's often really hard for them to see the bigger picture of where they fit in. And either they oversell it, or they just only know how to sell the features, right?

[00:26:24] Zach Hammer: Like, they think that they're the most important thing in the world, and they may or may not be. But either it's that worth, they think we're the solution to everything and they probably aren't. Or they only know the features that they're offering and that's all they know how to present. Most software companies seem to have some level of an issue, actually producing content that people want to consume because the content is good. That they know that they need to do it, so they're producing content. But they seem to struggle to say, how do we create the information that people want, knowing that we need that information to connect up to our product?

[00:26:58] Zach Hammer: And so, I found an [00:27:00] interesting angle of, when I can look at the user journey as a bigger picture and say, ultimately, what is your target market looking to achieve? And how do we show where your product fits into that overall journey, but still be able to speak intelligently about that overall journey? That becomes magical. Because they're excited that they're actually able to deliver content that they feel proud of to their audience, in a way that still leads towards sales, so like, that interesting mix.

[00:27:29] Zach Hammer: So, software companies, especially I've seen that with. So that's a good angle to think through there when you're looking at more of the coaching angle and the people who are directly selling information, it's probably a little bit less that angle. And it might be a little bit more, how do I help you increase your sales? How do I give you another profit center that you don't currently have? So, you're looking at, how can I add to your income easily with very little work for you. Does that make sense?

[00:27:54] Charlie Madison: Right, yeah.

[00:27:55] Zach Hammer: It's going to depend on who you connect with and who you target. But that would be the key [00:28:00] idea. The other thing that could be really useful. This is an angle that I know works well is if you position it in a way where you're helping somebody with a different aspect. As for instance, the service that Richard provides, we know that people will get more value out of what his company does, which is essentially, you show up and record. And he makes everything else happen to make sure that content is edited, distributed in a way that looks great, goes out on time, and is done effectively, right?

[00:28:29] Zach Hammer: People will stick around longer for him using that service if that content is also further amplified. And so, Referrals While You Sleep is a really great fit in alignment with that. Because for him, you are potentially helping to solve a retention thing. You stepping in with not only your service but also content, you reduce churn, right?

[00:28:52] Zach Hammer: So you're increasing lifetime value. That could be another angle as well, where you think through it that way, where you think through part of what I'm offering just [00:29:00] with my service in general is this. So, doing the content fits that need of saying, we do this content specifically, to sell my service, and selling my service helps reduce your churn. Does that make sense?

[00:29:11] Charlie Madison: Yeah. What would happen if your average customer stayed on 2 more months?

[00:29:15] Zach Hammer: Exactly. And so, what I found is it's the same way that you have to figure out, how your product solves the needs of your target market. The webinar game is the same thing but applied to whoever you're partnering with for the webinar. What is your need? And how does this webinar become the solution to that?

[00:29:34] Zach Hammer: And from there, it's a matter of testing to see what works best for you and who you're looking to reach. Cause it's going to be different for everybody, I think. But there's going to be a couple of main areas. Is there a way that you can make it to be a profit center for them? Is there a way that you can help it solve the thorn in their side of being able to produce enough good marketing? Is there a way that it can help reduce churn for them? And shoot even better, is there a way that you can do the webinar together?

[00:29:57] Zach Hammer: This is also often how I've done it, [00:30:00] where I wasn't trying to sell me on the webinar, I was selling them, but I get the lead. So, I do the webinar to grow my list and they get the benefit of, I am the one who is able to say, here's why you should sign up with them and why it's great. And essentially, I pitch for them, but I'm growing my list in the process. That's another great way to do it too.

[00:30:20] Charlie Madison: That would be cool. Cause I could even say, Hey, any of you sign up today, you get 30 days free of my service.

[00:30:26] Zach Hammer: Exactly. And so, that sort of angle can work really well as well. Essentially, what you're doing is you're stacking incentives to say, Hey, I'm going to promote it to my list, let you promote it to your list, we'll share the leads that come out of the webinar itself. And we'll sell your service and then, what I get out of it is I get to grow my list and I create these opportunities or whatever, right? That sort of idea could work really well.

[00:30:48] Zach Hammer: Once you have that solved of the webinar itself, and by the way, we're really going into depth on some of the different angles. But here's what I found, for a lot of the right companies, especially, if you have even remotely [00:31:00] established some level of relationship with them. You say, Hey, let's do a webinar together, we'll take care of most of the content, give you something to promote, that's enough for so many people, right?

[00:31:09] Zach Hammer: We're going into depth here on really being able to solve for all the different angles. But part of it is sometimes just putting the opportunity out enough until you find the person that is motivated by being able to do the content so that you can have the asset. Does that make sense?

[00:31:22] Charlie Madison: Yeah.

[00:31:23] Zach Hammer: Perfect, cool. So, what we established there is we establish the foundational aspect of having the thing to be able to do together that we can then leverage. If you find the right partnership, then you're leveraging the opportunity to be able to grow your list through the joint venture concept.

[00:31:41] Zach Hammer: The next aspect that you want to be able to do if you want this to be something that you could deploy at scale and deploy effectively. Like I said, we need to be able to create the webinar itself. We need to be able to do promo for the webinar, both promo to our list, promo to their list, [00:32:00] things like social posts, potentially things like ads.

[00:32:03] Zach Hammer: We need to be able to quickly and readily come up with things like landing pages and reminder sequences. And then, we potentially, after the fact want to have our follow-up and amplification stuff as well. Once we've got the thing booked, then we get to actually do that stuff.

[00:32:20] Zach Hammer: And what I've learned how to set up is how to make all of that incredibly easy, just by being able to center around, what are we going to teach on the webinar at a high level? And then from that, being able to create all the assets, being able to create the landing pages, the promo sequences, the social media posts, the ads, the follow-up sequences, all of that.

[00:32:41] Zach Hammer: Does that sound like that makes sense? Do you get right now at this position, you're imagining, I've got somebody to do a webinar with, looking at the extent of, what would need to happen in order to make the webinar happen? And that feels a bit overwhelming. Does that sound accurate?

[00:32:54] Charlie Madison: There's a lot involved, yes.

[00:32:56] Zach Hammer: The same way that I talk about that I start with a foundational thing and I figure out [00:33:00] how all of the other pieces come from it. So, the first thing that you establish, is what are we going to talk about? And you center it around, what is the meaningful transformation that somebody is going to have when they show up on this webinar? How are they going to leave the webinar changed in a better position than when they arrived?

[00:33:18] Zach Hammer: I always want to start with that. I'm thinking, who is going to show up? And how are they going to leave the webinar changed and better off? And it's always important to me, that happens regardless of whether they buy anything. And there's a couple of reasons for it, the biggest one is, the idea of playing an infinite game where I want every interaction that somebody has with my marketing, my brand. I want them to feel like they won every time that they engage with it. I may not always achieve that, but I want that to happen.

[00:33:54] Zach Hammer: So, if they show up for a webinar, I don't want them to feel like, I just wasted a bunch of my time. [00:34:00] Because the only way that I actually get the value from the thing that I signed up for is if I buy the product. And maybe the timing isn't right, maybe they don't have it in the budget, maybe it's not a fit for their overall goals. So, when you set it up like that, what you're teaching them, is they feel like you promised them something that they only get the delivery on if they buy the product. And that teaches them to only come to your stuff when they feel like they're ready to buy.

[00:34:24] Zach Hammer: And that may or may not be what you want. For me, I want to build influence that when the time is right, they feel like it's a definite yes. Because they've gotten so much value throughout the process. So, we start with what is that meaningful transformation. I will write that at a basic level. I'll talk through the partner or talk through it with the partner and say, Hey, what are some of the things that maybe we could teach on? That you feel would be valuable for people? And typically, I like to come armed with ideas based on what they're up to.

[00:34:46] Zach Hammer: And I like to come saying, Hey, I think we could talk about the powerful way that retargeting your current audience really amplifies everything that you're doing on this front-end process, right? Where it's you make the software easy, [00:35:00] I make making sure that this part's easy. And we can talk about, what that retargeting strategy looks like. What tends to be in the process? What would happen? And then the offer becomes, if you want that to be easy, you use this tool, right? You can do this process, but if you want it to be easier, quicker, faster, you buy the thing. To shorten the learning curve or to make the process easier. Does that make sense?

[00:35:20] Charlie Madison: Yeah.

[00:35:20] Zach Hammer: So, we established that idea of, what is the meaningful transformation that we're to deliver? We write that down, high-level ideas, I don't overthink this, I'm not trying to sell anything yet, I just want to clearly convey, what are the overall ideas that we're going to do. From that, I'm able to take that and using a series of AI prompts, create the title of the webinar and the landing page copy, right? And so, typically, I'm working on both at the same time where I'll create a rough draft, that's a potential title option or 2 or 3, and then rough landing page copy.

[00:35:57] Zach Hammer: The landing page copy for me is almost always a [00:36:00] problem agitate solution, framework where I start with a question of, Hey, are you dealing with this problem? Doesn't it suck? Drive salt in the room, that's the agitate. And then the solution, what would it look like if it was all better?

[00:36:12] Zach Hammer: And then, you present the webinar as if it's the solution where join us for this webinar where we're going to be covering these things. I always like to list out a bullet points of the high-level ideas of what are going to be covered. And then I end with another call to action of, Hey, if you want this result, do this.

[00:36:27] Zach Hammer: Anyway, at this point, I've got AI systems that take that rough draft information and give you back a solid version of that. Typically, I've found that it does need to be iterated on a few times to really dial it in. Where you realize after reading it, that it's not really hitting at the pain points that I feel like are most compelling.

[00:36:45] Zach Hammer: And so, you might give it the feedback, Oh, this doesn't clearly mention this pain point that now is clear as a result of going through this, so you iterate with it. But once you get that landing page dialed, then you take that landing page and the title of the webinar. And not only can you [00:37:00] establish your landing page for the webinar using something like Zoom, or using something like BigMarker, or whatever tool you'd like to use, you can get that set up so you have a link.

[00:37:07] Zach Hammer: You take the copy for the landing page and then, a series of AI prompts that I use to create the other assets, right? So, there's a few different email promo strategies that work really well. I do like at least a 3-day promo strategy. That's my minimum expectation. So, a 3-day promo strategy is typically at least, the 3 days before the webinar, then the day before the webinar, the day of the webinar, and the day of the webinar tends to be at least, the 2-part email, sometimes more. So, the 2 part email is reminding them that it's the day of its last chance.

[00:37:39] Zach Hammer: And then, we're about to go live, as another email. Essentially, the emails are largely just an email-adapted version of the landing page. So, you take the landing page content, they get rewritten as those emails. You can do more advanced tactics where you do storytelling in order to [00:38:00] tease the potential idea of, Hey, here's the problem that I discovered, here's how I discovered a solution.

[00:38:05] Zach Hammer: And you can use like a soap opera sequence style of teasing into the next one that can work well. But when you're focusing on, here's the problem, here's what you're going to learn, that by itself, can work. Once I get that 3-day email sequence dialed, I will adapt that email sequence. So, for the first time, it's written, I'm typically writing it from my perspective of, I'm promoting it to my list. I take that same sequence and I say, great, now please restructure that email sequence, so that it's from this person's perspective to go out to their list. And all it does is, it change the language minorly so that it makes sense in that context as if they're sharing it.

[00:38:42] Zach Hammer: So, if you had shared a story that was personal, it'll either get rid of that story, or it'll say, Charlie did this thing and got great results. And so, I'm excited to bring him on to talk about it. So, it rewrites it so that they could share it in a way that makes sense coming from them to their list. [00:39:00] Does that make sense?

[00:39:00] Charlie Madison: Yeah.

[00:39:01] Zach Hammer: You can modify or extend those, depending on how much you want to promote. So, a 3-day sequence can be expanded into a 7-day sequence. A 7-day sequence can be expanded into a 2 to 3-week sequence. I do like for Mosey's style of whisper, tell, shout. I forget if that's exactly how he describes it. But the idea is you tease at something. So if I'm doing a 3-week sequence. I'm probably doing 1 email, 3 weeks out, just opening up the idea and starting to get people aware of it. The week before, I maybe start emailing more than once that week, so a time or two.

[00:39:36] Zach Hammer: And then, the week of, I'm talking to people about it every day, if that makes sense. And I'm aligning a social strategy around that as well. Very typically, with that style of email sequence, you can also take that and adapt that to social posts, where you take an angle of what you're going to be talking about, create, have AI adapt that to social posts, to have prompts that do that.

[00:39:54] Zach Hammer: And then similarly taking those social posts and adapting them. So that, the person that you're doing the webinar with can promote it [00:40:00] as well. Reminder sequences are a little bit different. So, those are what I call promo sequences. Promo sequences' purpose is to get somebody to sign up for the webinar.

[00:40:10] Zach Hammer: Reminder sequences are different. Reminder sequences are to get somebody who signed up for the webinar to show up for the webinar. They're very often very similar, where it's just reminding somebody that the webinar is coming up, what it's going to be about. Maybe some teasers about what's going to be covered. You can get AI to write those for you. A lot of the platforms have them built in and what's built in is mostly good enough. That's what I've found. There's some level of tricks that you could do to adapt that, but that's what I've typically found there. And then, depending on what you did on the webinar, you can have a follow-up sequence as well.

[00:40:43] Zach Hammer: And the follow-up sequence can be written in a couple of ways. There's the, whether or not you came, here's the link to get access to the recording. And a little bit about what's covered. So that, people can get that, you could do that as 1 email if you want to. If you really want to maximize the value of a webinar, you turn the follow-up sequence into a longer [00:41:00] term thing. Where you break out some of the topics and you say, Hey, we talked about this. It was really powerful. Just a reminder. Here's where you can go to get it.

[00:41:06] Zach Hammer: If you made a very clear and specific offer on the webinar, that's the other thing that I like to do as well as in the follow-up sequence. You say, Hey, if you missed it, here's where you get access to the replay, but really we're using it as an excuse to tell them about the powerful offer.

[00:41:20] Zach Hammer: And post-webinar, I might even cut the offer itself onto its own things that somebody could literally just go and see the offer directly. So, that they can buy or sign up or whatever. And so I say, we talked about this and why it's so powerful. And then, you connect them to, how to take advantage of the offer.

[00:41:38] Zach Hammer: Again, all of this stuff. I've got sequences and playbooks that I tend to deploy for each of these, around what those look like? And how do those work? But at a basic level, do you understand the free level of the promo, just leveraging email and social?

[00:41:51] Charlie Madison: Yeah, it's a lot. I can see where it's worth it, a business without a sales system sucks. This is almost like hiring a salesperson, except you don't have to [00:42:00] manage them. And they already have relationships with these people. I know the famous internet marketers, they used to work together and every month they'd have a new promotion and their email list just got bigger and bigger. What if I could find 2, 3, or 12 people where like once a month I did this?

[00:42:19] Zach Hammer: Exactly, I think that to me is a really powerful goal to try and see if you can get to the point where you're doing one a month. Because one a month, it can be foundational for how you do more direct promotion to your own list. It gives you like an asset to do that with. It also grows your list if you do it right.

[00:42:38] Zach Hammer: And then the other reason is that you can leverage the webinars even further with amplification strategies after the fact using paid ads. And I'll dive into that in a second. There's one thing that comes before it, there's 2 potential manual strategies that are sales strategies that can help you get [00:43:00] more sales as a result of the webinar.

[00:43:01] Zach Hammer: You can increase your show-up rate. You can increase your sales activity, but it's at the downside of it takes manual effort, right? Depending on what you're wanting to lean toward. But if you really want to maximize your sales, everyone who registers, you email or you call and you say, Hey, saw that you registered, I'm super excited for you to come to this webinar, it's going to be great content. What are you hoping to get out of it so that we can make sure that we cover that for you?

[00:43:26] Zach Hammer: And you ask that question partially because of the webinar, but more because by hearing what somebody is looking to get out of it. You can then note that and transition into, how your product can help them get what they're looking to get. So, you can actually turn literally somebody registering for the webinar into a very easy sales conversation. Because you're just connecting it to what they're already indicating they want anyway. And you can do that a couple of ways. You could literally do it from the first [00:44:00] call.

[00:44:00] Zach Hammer: Honestly, sometimes more powerfully, is that you ask what they're looking to get out of it. And then you say, great, Hey, just let you know, I'm going to call you after the webinar. So, that we can go over some of these details and make sure you got what you're looking for out of this. And then, you do a follow-up call where you actually deliver on that. Now that sort of strategy, if you're running like, I know for you right now, I don't believe you have an extensive sales team. So, a lot of the sales aspect is mostly you. So that probably for you, If you were going to do that, what I would do is I would see, I would figure out a way to automate that only the most qualified people end up being the ones that you would have those conversations with.

[00:44:40] Zach Hammer: So, that could be like, somebody registers and you do a post-registration, follow-up survey. And in that survey, you get indications of, you ask questions like, what kind of business are you in? Et cetera. And you know how to target and go after the ones that are the most likely to be highly qualified and worth you spending your time on. If you [00:45:00] were going to do something manual.

[00:45:01] Zach Hammer: For people with a sales team. Literally, it starts to become a source of, who should be on their call list that day. Because this is somebody that's shown recency. They've shown a high degree of interest right now by signing up for a webinar. And so, you can have them call and qualify and then know how to do that sales process from there. The post-call follow-up amplification strategy, like a sales strategy, is really, it's the same idea. Hey, what did you think of the webinar? Were you able to attend?

[00:45:27] Zach Hammer: What did you get out of it? And then from there, you transition to, Hey, I know they made the offer on the call, were you interested in that? Was that something that you wanted to be able to move forward on? Can I help you get started? That sort of thing. It's literally half the time, it's just making the offer and giving them that opportunity to take action and try and make it easy for them.

[00:45:45] Zach Hammer: But for you specifically, because I think if you're going to deploy a webinar strategy like this, you're more likely looking to leverage the scalable aspect of it. Because you don't have the sales team to do the manual aspect. But if you wanted to still get some of that benefit, a quick [00:46:00] post-registration survey that asks questions if how they answer those questions reveals if they're qualified enough for you to want to reach out to them directly. That make sense?

[00:46:08] Charlie Madison: Yeah. I think, my offer is to try it for free for 30 days or more. That's a pretty good offer.

[00:46:14] Zach Hammer: It is indeed. A lot of it's the question of, what are you looking to optimize for, right? So, if you're looking to optimize, to really maximize the value that you get out of it, that's where the manual sales comes into play, right? Cause that's going to be your best strategy to really maximize every opportunity that's theirs, to talk to the people and to see what those opportunities are so, you can connect the dots for them.

[00:46:33] Zach Hammer: Because those conversations, will often connect the dots that they may not have had on their own. If you need to optimize for time, then you leverage the power of the offer and you lean on the scalability aspects. And that's what you're looking to get out of it. So, it's all about setting up the strategy to achieve the goals that you're looking to achieve. Now, so what we've covered is we've covered, what are the types of the webinars. A little bit about what we're going to teach, and what we're going to teach is typically the alignment between, whoever we're doing the content with. [00:47:00] And how can we either sell their product or how can we can connect them to what we're up to?

[00:47:04] Zach Hammer: We talked about the different types and strategies there. We talked about, who is ideal to do these webinars with in order to maximize the value that we get out of it. In terms of being able to grow our list together. We talked about the promo strategy of, how do we make setting all of that up easy.

[00:47:19] Zach Hammer: So the next part, now we have an asset that we've created, right? So, the first run is all of the figuring out what we're going to teach, teaching it, promoting it at the first part, doing the basic followup, right? So, we got that asset. Now, we can take it and turn them into something that we can just run over and over and over and over again. And really maximize our opportunities there. And so, what that looks like is that you could take the webinar itself and run ads to that webinar in order to see how well people are responding to it for cold traffic to see if you can grow your list that way as well.

[00:47:52] Zach Hammer: So, now you've got a recording and you could literally just host that recording on a page. You're familiar, I'm sure with software that like pretends [00:48:00] like it's a webinar, but it really isn't. What we found in our testing is that, both in terms of conversions to sales as well as in registration. Basically no difference between telling somebody, Hey, you're getting access to a prerecorded masterclass video.

[00:48:17] Zach Hammer: That's just a video on a page versus pretending like it's a webinar. That's what we've seen in our practice, at least. So, the good news about that is I know there's a lot of people who have like ethical considerations around, I don't want to feel like I'm lying to people and I completely get that.

[00:48:34] Zach Hammer: The good news is, what we've seen in testing is that there isn't a massive difference in running it one way or the other. Because really what you're getting is the webinar is an excuse to generate the lead. And then your follow-up sequence is probably going to do a lot of the heavy lifting. Does that make sense?

[00:48:48] Charlie Madison: Yeah.

[00:48:49] Zach Hammer: What that is, it's clear that it's a replay, but there are real people manning the chat. So that, when somebody asks a question, there's a real person who can answer the question. And you can [00:49:00] actually set up software. So like, those questions automatically come into slack or come into some sort of channel. So that, you can answer questions as they're coming in. Still have a scalable way without having to have a person live on the webinar teaching. So, that could be a way to have both. That, I haven't run it enough to see if it really makes a massive difference.

[00:49:18] Zach Hammer: But it is a doable thing where you get that benefit of saying, we're not lying to people, we're not trying to trick them. Because again, I think it's only a matter of time before you get enough people who are like, I think this is a replay. And I don't know, you just build that relationship on a lack of trust and I don't think that's good.

[00:49:33] Charlie Madison: Anytime that I hop on a replay and I'm smart enough to know when it's actually live or not. I just lose a little bit of trust. I'm like, why lie to me?

[00:49:42] Zach Hammer: And the good news is, you get to have your cake and eat it too. In our testing, what we've seen is that you don't need to do that and you still get the good results. That's the nice thing, it would suck if you figure out like, Oh, we actually make twice as much if we are lying to people and that's not what we've seen in practice at least. So, that aspect works while being able to deploy that. What I really [00:50:00] like to do is the same, you know this because I've conveyed some of these ideas and how you think through running your own ads for Referrals While You Sleep. That same process applies to testing the webinars as well, where what I like to do is, I essentially think of the webinar as an offer that I'm testing and I compare different offers, different webinars against each other to see what gets me the lowest cost per lead to grow my list?

[00:50:26] Zach Hammer: And so, what I'll do is I'll set up the strategy so that, I'll run a test campaign where we are promoting a webinar. And I run it for at least a week and I look to see what is our cost per lead on that. If it is at or below a striking distance of possibly beating our current best performer, then it gets added into a scaling bucket.

[00:50:49] Zach Hammer: If it's not, then it dies in the test, right? I run the test and then it's done. If it gets added into the scaling bucket, you set your budget to figure out, what you want that to [00:51:00] do. And I actually just let Facebook point toward the campaign that's currently generating the best cost per lead.

[00:51:05] Zach Hammer: So I essentially, drop all of the options in there and then let Facebook see what is currently performing best. It's proven itself out as being likely a good candidate. I let Facebook actually take that and scale it. And what I've found in practice, this is part of why I say, getting that goal of doing one a month is really powerful. Because you're going to find after doing 12 of them, 1 of them is going to be your standout.

[00:51:29] Zach Hammer: And you don't know that until you run it until you see how it goes. And what offer that looks like. And so, that's part of what I found that part of why I want to do the 12 isn't just to have the 12 opportunities. But to literally find 12 different people if possible to do it with. So, that I'm getting different opportunities to test. So, I'm actually figuring that out.

[00:51:47] Zach Hammer: Now, there are ways where you can take the same webinar and skin them, to see if a different hook or a different angle would work better. And you could run a test that way as well, where I've got this webinar that we're going to point [00:52:00] to, but we're going to rewrite the copy, redo the images a little bit on the front end to present it in a different way, to see if we can get better performance out of it.

[00:52:08] Zach Hammer: That's another way to do it as well. Depending on the volume of webinars that you're able to do, that might be what you have to do. In order to really get the most leverage out of it. When I've done this work with other companies, we got to a point where we were doing like a webinar every other week, if not, more. We had a couple of weeks where we did 2 in a week.

[00:52:25] Zach Hammer: So, we had a lot of offers to test. So, we were able to lean on just the offer itself compared to having to iterate over different hooks. But, getting to that point where you get one a month and iterating those tests over different hooks for how you present the same thing, could be a good way of doing that. You could use AI to do that, where you come up with some slightly different angles and you say, present this as a story, present this problem, agitate solution, rewrite this offer as if it was, Frank Kern, rewrite this offer as if it was Seth Godin. You get that benefit of being able to present it in different ways or solving different aspects of somebody's problem. Does that make sense?

[00:52:59] Charlie Madison: Yeah.

[00:52:59] Zach Hammer: And [00:53:00] there you go. You can also take the webinar, run that through AI, and use it for social content as well, where you extract out clips and you run that through your social feeds. We've done that as well.

[00:53:11] Zach Hammer: You take the transcript and run it through my process that I use for taking things like this and putting that out as a written posts. So really, like these webinars can be the source of not only list growth, but also nurturing as well.

[00:53:24] Charlie Madison: I love that. It took me 4 years to find product market fit, where it's really product-led. When people hear about the product, they're like, Yeah, it's a no-brainer, I'm gonna do it. Now, this is almost like webinar market fit for the near-bound people. And you, so that I don't have to spend 4 years finding webinar market fit. And so, that by the time I figure it out, things have changed.

[00:53:49] Zach Hammer: Yeah, exactly. Part of what seems to be interesting is, this has been my experience. One of the things that people seem to find helpful is, I find it easier to step into [00:54:00] the shoes of the person that you're looking to reach, right?

[00:54:03] Zach Hammer: Whether that be the person that the webinar itself is supposed to reach, or whether that be the person that you're looking to partner with for the webinar. And I really seem to be able to connect there quickly and quicker. Where instinctively I help to figure out what is that alignment.

[00:54:17] Zach Hammer: What do they want out of it? How can we make this so that they feel dumb staying up, right? It's such a good offer that they want to do it. And that's the part that's really hard for me to teach. But what's interesting, is when you have that and when you get that alignment, when you get that connection. There's still a crap ton of work to get done. And all of that becomes a lot easier with the right playbook and process and tools where, when you have the proven process that you say, great, we've got this opportunity, how are we going to promote it?

[00:54:46] Zach Hammer: And not having to think through all the answers to those things, having that all done. And we didn't even cover this, I have processes for how I think through putting together the slides and actually doing the webinar itself and all of that. In your position, having your own company, I don't know if you consider [00:55:00] Referrals While You Sleep a SAS or not, I would. What you're doing is you're delivering an end result. And you have built a number of tools and processes. So, a combination of software and service processes in order to deliver that end results people.

[00:55:12] Charlie Madison: It's like done for you, SAS.

[00:55:14] Zach Hammer: Exactly, yeah. The service is the emphasis, but you leverage software in order to make it easy, if that makes sense, for your team to deliver. You are the kind of person that would be an ideal fit for a lot of the strategies that we just walked through, obviously. For you in that process do you feel like is helpful? Having somebody like me to come alongside, to be able to help implement that?

[00:55:35] Charlie Madison: I want the easiest thing, you've done it before. If I couldn't breathe and you had the machine that like pumps oxygen into my breath, I'm not having to learn how to do it. Like I've got a page full of notes that I'm looking at here. Like, where do I start? And for me, how am I patient enough to actually do each step before I get bored enough that I want to go do [00:56:00] something else?

[00:56:00] Charlie Madison: Being patient enough to do one step and patient enough to not like, Oh, I'm done with this. One of the things that you've already helped with like over the last 4 years, me and you were like, we're talking about the same customer. We'll get to know them deeper and deeper. I've been in a process of, you helped me build a few of my first webinars, and like it took a lot of time. And that was before AI, and now it's even better. Just taking the time where it was done with me, right?

[00:56:28] Charlie Madison: You can't do it for me. AI by itself can't do it for me. I haven't found anyone with skill that can do it for me anywhere affordably under 6 figures. Like it's my unique knowledge, my product, but you have the ability, like you said, to ask the right questions and see it from multiple person views as well as underneath multiple technical views. And here's how you can do this leveraged. So, that's a full service there [00:57:00] where, in a way, you're a great tractor and then you build it with me. Really, you build it and I watch it and say, Oh man, that's really cool.

[00:57:06] Zach Hammer: And part of what's interesting is, it ends up being a little bit of a journey of discovery of, what are your goals? What are you looking to achieve? Who are you reaching? What do they want? There are always aspects where, I don't claim to be the expert on what you're doing, right? I don't claim to be the expert on, what you figured out works or doesn't work. So, I extract what I need to understand your point of view. From stepping into your point of view, also bridge the gap to understanding, who you're looking to reach.

[00:57:34] Zach Hammer: I can understand their point of view and connect those dots while still doing the practical step by step, we've got to write emails. We've got to write a landing page, we've got to create something to present, right? But holding all of those pieces together to say, how do we convey this message to this group of people in a systematic way that we can rely on?

[00:57:56] Zach Hammer: Do you feel like you at least have a high-level idea [00:58:00] of what the strategy would look like to deploy for Referrals While You Sleep?

[00:58:04] Charlie Madison: Yeah, we talked about the different types of webinars and I think the near-bound webinar preferably if I can make it a user case study. So, I find the right audience who also serves my audience. It's a longer sales cycle for me, but it's also in a lot of ways easier to say, Hey, I think this can help your clients and you, and I want to do it with you for the next 30 days. Yeah, think that's a great system.

[00:58:34] Charlie Madison: And then, it's a matter of having a system or a partner like you, or instruction. So that, all right, how do I extract what's important to them? And I'll eventually have a few different playbooks. This person wants to reduce churn, this person just wants content. This person want affiliate income. Should be eventually like a pretty good sales system for a small company, which is what I want.

[00:58:57] Zach Hammer: There you go. So yeah, that was a live [00:59:00] fire application of my overall playbook. But it's more of an overarching strategy of individual playbooks, right? But yeah, there you go, Charlie, thank you so much for coming on and working through that together. Hopefully, that was a useful, valuable for you and moves you forward.

[00:59:16] Zach Hammer: Anybody listening, if you want help implementing that same sort of concept for your business directly, you can reach out to me at ZachHammer.me/contact. Let me know that you're interested in implementing the webinar system. Let me know what your goals are. What you're working on?

[00:59:32] Zach Hammer: And we could see about putting together a way to help you. Again, I've got all of this templatized and processed for all of it. So, we can hit the ground running and deploy on that. Whether you are a real estate team, that's looking to deploy on this sort of concept in order to recruit agents in your market? Whether you are a SAS company, that's looking to figure out how to leverage this sort of opportunity to deploy content to your list and grow your list? Or really, if you're a business owner with a team [01:00:00] that you could see how you can leverage content like this in order to deploy out, grow your list, and do it in a cool way that's scalable and create all sorts of assets for you?

[01:00:08] Zach Hammer: I'd love to help you do that. So, feel free to reach out. Otherwise, we will continue to share more value, more stories, here on this show. So, make sure that you get subscribed, wherever you listen to your podcasts and check us out at ZachHammer.me to stay up to date on what we're up to.